Curse

ComMan · Aug 03, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Isn't the heal ball Life Bond + Healing seed?

Healing Spring is a trap, any attack interrupts it. Barrage and Cycle Axe come to mind.

Spirit spammers are not unbeatable. They're very beatable, because spirits affect both sides. If your spike build can't work with QZ up, then that's your fault. If you smite build can't take NR, that's your fault. Putting all your eggs into one basket is just not the way to beat Spirit Spam, sorry.

BigTru · Aug 03, 2005, 05:23 PM // 17:23

It took a hell of a lot more strategy to come up with spirit teams than spike teams, that's for sure.

When it began, it wasn't just "spam the spirits" because nobody ever attacked the spirits, there was no reason to spam them.

The main skills were GF+Winter and Fertile Season. The rest were just icing on the cake. Nobody spammed NR at first because everyone was wearing Frostbound and were using Matra of Frost.

THAT was strategy.

Then someone had to post the build on this forum (I remember the first time someone posted it here) and all hell broke loose. Everyone wanted to try and every guild was running their newbie members through the Ascension areas just so they could try this build.

Eventually it turned into what it is today.

The funny thing is that when all W/Mo teams came out, everyone was screaming "zOMG NERF TEH PALADINS!". Then all spike teams came out "NERF! NERF! THATZ UNFAIR!". Then Smite teams came out, but before anybody had a chance to moan and whine, spirit groups came out.

So what's my point? Please shutup and play the game or quit. If you can't find "teh uber" counter for the spirit team, then wait for other people to do it for you.

Algren Cole · Aug 03, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

I can't go toe to toe with a warrior...he has too much armor. NERF IT!

Santanus_Perro · Aug 03, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Don't do much PvP on my end. Frankly, I loved PvP in beta. In fact, I thought I would be a PvP player mostly. But what I found was it was impossible to get a PUG going as a W/Mo (damage build at that) and that there were so many immature players that did nothing but smack talk. The last thing I need is to play a game to relax to only get riled up because some punk decides he needs to believe he has a bigger johnson by smack talking.

And now, I see people on both sides of this issue flaming each other. Man, have some respect for each other and their opinions. It is possible to disagree and still respect the other person's opinions.

And I for one think the W/Mo will make a comeback, sort of like bell bottoms and the Village People!!!

dargon · Aug 03, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

I'm not talking about the forums, I'm talking in general.

Stop making it so complicated.

I'm talking in general too. Why should ANet do something that they only know for certain will make 50% of the forum users happy. They don't know what the other 99% of the people in the game will feel about it. Person X's idea may make wonderful sense to him and his friends on the forum, but the game population in general could think it a royally dumb idea. Currently there is no way for ANet to simply poll every person in the game to find out their opinion, and as such, no way to determine what the majority wants.

Desecration Station · Aug 03, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

How can you people honestly sit there and say that there's strategy involved?

I'm not talking about ranger w/ monks to heal that spam spirits here and there and rely on natures renewal to win. That's cheap on it's own, but what I'm referring to is far worse than that.

What I'm referring to is the so called 'heal ball'. Yes there is a version with monks involved, but what I'm referring to is far worse than that. No monks at all, pure ranger group.

Simply put. The team spawns and gathers together in a tight ball around the ghostly hero/priest. They start spamming the spirits around the priest and hero forming a protective shield against any foes. At this point your team is screwed and you should just quit now. Just throw some wards and chain heal spring and you have an unbeatable turtle.

The last time we encountered this it was during the mission where it ends up being 8v8v8. Even after we teamed up with the other team (since they knew they were screwed when they saw the shield as well) we still got destroyed. We had some smiting and they were straight up spiking. I think they managed to kill 1 of their spirits (1!!!!!!). Channeling Heal Spring kept all their spirits alive when in conjunction with fertile season.

You know I've actually had this happen to me at the HoH and we couldn't even injure the Ghostly Hero. I've discussed this with a couple of people that have experienced the same thing and they say it's a bug where you won't even damage whatever is inside the close proximity of the spirits (this of course i don't know for sure so I can't really say).

I'm sorry but there's no strategy there. The only thing you can really do is wait it out and hope that they come out of their heal ball. Even then you deal with the sheer fact that they spammed spirits.

I don't think spirits should be eilminated period, but just spamming is out of control.

I don't understand how you can honestly say there's nothing wrong with the spamming of spirits? No one is saying not use ACTUAL strategy to effectively use spirits, but the way it is now is out of control.

What I want is one of you spamming enthusiasts to explain to me why it would be unfair to have max 1 of each spirit at a time? Why are spirits the only skills that can stack? It should work just like any other skill where casting a new one replaces the old one. This way you can still effectively use spirits, but there's just more strategy to it than spamming as many as you can.

*edit*

The problem isn't groups using spirits to their advantage. I totally support any build out of the cookie-cutter smite and spike. I was actually impressed when I saw how nature's renewal created such a problem for these 2 builds. However, the problem is with the way spamming sheer numbers of THE SAME spirits can affect gameplay. The problem with spirit spamming isn't the idea of using all of the available spirits to your advantage. The problem is with the ability to spam and therefore making these conditions permanent. You can still have effective spirit use and strategy (actual strategy) without the ability to spam spirits.

Zubrowka · Aug 03, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I foresee the days of people complaining about all-mesmer teams...

JoDiamonds · Aug 03, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

A pack of rangers, tightly stuck together, is unbeatable?

I know it's not popular in PvP, for good reasons, but this is why Area Effect spells exist. I'm sure a couple of Elementalists (not to mention some other classes) could easily outdamage the Healing Spring.

Maybe the builds people like that are popular aren't winning against these groups, but just because almost no one takes Meteor Storm to PvP doesn't mean that solution doesn't exist. =)

Dan Mega · Aug 03, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

It fits the very definition of 'strategy' since its a plan to work towards a goal. Winning. Maybe it would be easier on people if they found a way to beat the spirit strategy rather than complaining so much about it.

I'm also wondering why a mod hasn't threatened to close the thread yet, as they did when some guy was complaining about how casters couldn't be beaten in another one...

Como Fort · Aug 03, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Hehe. My thread got closed, I'm not even sure why...

BigTru · Aug 03, 2005, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

A pack of rangers, tightly stuck together, is unbeatable?

I know it's not popular in PvP, for good reasons, but this is why Area Effect spells exist. I'm sure a couple of Elementalists (not to mention some other classes) could easily outdamage the Healing Spring.

Maybe the builds people like that are popular aren't winning against these groups, but just because almost no one takes Meteor Storm to PvP doesn't mean that solution doesn't exist. =)

Not when they are using Greater Conflagruation + Winter + Matra of Frost + FrostBound armor

Timoz · Aug 04, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Hehe. My thread got closed, I'm not even sure why...

I saw Comos thread in the short time it survived on these forums, he simply stated what he wants nerfed and voiced his OPINION in the SUGGESTION section of the forum which is exactly what others are doing with NR. Why was his thread deleted when the moderator chooses to allow so many new threads about the nerfing of NR?? hmm.

Great forum don't get me wrong, just seems a little unfair don't you think? People are allowed to complain about natures renewal in as many new threads as they like but comos not allowed to complain about what he gets beaten by... An explanation maybe..?

BigTru · Aug 04, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Yep, I guess the Moderators are very biased. I've come to expect that from guildwarsguru.com.

Kakumei · Aug 04, 2005, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Well obviously A.Net or whatever don't mind or they wouldn't of made spirits in the first place. Don't you think the developers think of these problems in advance, and don't you also think that it really is up to them what happens? IMO, I think they will stick to what they created because they obviously like it just the way it is. It was created that way.

I have to point this out as one of the most idiotic posts that I've ever had the misfortune of reading.

Why do you think developers update games? Patch them? Because there are balance issues that need to be sorted out. Developers can only test their games so much before that deadline looms dangerously close. Also, they only have so many testers--they aren't able to cover every possible angle. The public is the one who tries its best to abuse the system in place, to find ways around the limitations the developers tried to set--workarounds that the testers simply didn't find. That's what updates are for.

The developers also didn't know in which directions the metagame was going to go--they had no idea spiking could be so powerful, or smiting, or whatever else. That's what the public is for, to try all of these different angles, and expose flaws within the balance of the game, so that the developers can correct these errors.

In addition, ArenaNet itself (I believe, correct me if I am wrong) likened Guild Wars to Magic: the Gathering. This is an excellent analogy, for the reasons stated above. Both ArenaNet and Wizards of the Coast are constantly watching the metagame, and they will alter the game/restrict cards to keep the game as balanced and fun for all players involved ad possible.

I know, I know--tl;dr. But I just wanted to speak my piece. Thank you.

3LvL20'sROast_Stealer · Aug 04, 2005, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Well obviously A.Net or whatever don't mind or they wouldn't of made spirits in the first place. Don't you think the developers think of these problems in advance, and don't you also think that it really is up to them what happens? IMO, I think they will stick to what they created because they obviously like it just the way it is. It was created that way.

Como i like your other posts but im going to have to go with Kakumei on this one.. thats the dumbest post ever made on any forum on any game, and if there are aliens with dumb posts i think yours still takes the cake

of course GW changes there game... thats why theres beta's...Alpha Testers... Updates...
**i like your other posts thow
__________________________________________________ __
Back to the reason the thread was open :::::
Personally i've never come across 1 of these NR spirit spamming strategies but I can't believe that can be unbeatable...

Can some1 do me a favour and post on here the answers to this question :::
Why doesn't this list of skills stop them::
1.Blackout
2.Power Spike
3.Energy Drain
4.**Metoer Shower**
5.(Any DIsrupting Move Or even attack as spirits are "Easily Interupted"

Im Sure i can Conjure up Many more but these are the main 1's.....ANY1 REPLY

Como Fort · Aug 04, 2005, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Why do you think developers update games? Patch them? Because there are balance issues that need to be sorted out. Developers can only test their games so much before that deadline looms dangerously close. Also, they only have so many testers--they aren't able to cover every possible angle. The public is the one who tries its best to abuse the system in place, to find ways around the limitations the developers tried to set--workarounds that the testers simply didn't find. That's what updates are for.

LoL. Ok, so maybe you guys don't get the jist of what that was, and looking back, I can understand why. I'll rewrite it, but this time in better English and I will get my point across.

Now I'm not talking about updates to fix bugs, crashes, new quests and ATTEMPTING to balance the game, I'm talking about how people actually want Spirits COMPLETELY REMOVED. THAT is what I don't think will happen, not any of the above or what have you.

My reason for thinking this is because that they have always been included and that even if people are going to complain about Spirit Spamming groups I personally don't think it will accomplish anything. People on this forum provide a tiny amount of the gamers who actually play Guild Wars. There is just not enough evidence that these skills need to be as nerfed as some of you say.

One last thing I'd like to point out: -

One extremely ignorant guy said....

Quote:

Certain groups? How about the whole map?

Yeah go get some knowledge. All Spirits have a range you n00b.

funbun · Aug 04, 2005, 11:21 AM // 11:21

So, whenever someone comes up with a good strategy to play PvP, Anet should nerf it? If they nerf it sooner or later someone else will have another strategy. Will you want them to nerf that?

It'll get to the point where any strategy must be nerfed becuase you're angry that you got owned.

Timoz · Aug 04, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

So, whenever someone comes up with a good strategy to play PvP, Anet should nerf it? If they nerf it sooner or later someone else will have another strategy. Will you want them to nerf that?

It'll get to the point where any strategy must be nerfed becuase you're angry that you got owned.

This is basically what Como said in his thread which was closed down for no reason, also what i've said in just about every single thread on NR, please listen to this guy if your not gonna listen to anyone else people. Stop complaining about every strategy you get beaten by.

Thanks for re-iterating this funbun

...still waiting for a response on why Comos thread was closed down and this hasn't been.?

Kaospryx · Aug 04, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Hehe. My thread got closed, I'm not even sure why...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoz

This is basically what Como said in his thread which was closed down for no reason, also what i've said in just about every single thread on NR, please listen to this guy if your not gonna listen to anyone else people. Stop complaining about every strategy you get beaten by.

Thanks for re-iterating this funbun

...still waiting for a response on why Comos thread was closed down and this hasn't been.?

Are you really that dense? His post wanted to nerf and make Balthazar's Aura elite...because it owned him in pvp. He wanted to nerf all mesmers because they owned his monk. He stated that he didn't like backfire and empathy, because those in particular destroyed his monk. Yes, empathy. He also wanted to nerf warriors becuase they used balthazar's aura. Again, that in itself is stupid, because he lacks the common sense to figure out that the warrior themselves do not cast balth's on themself.

Then his great paragraph:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Como Fort

Lastly I would like to nerf anything that gives me trouble in PvP because I'm such a n00b I can't be bothered to find a strategy. I just want everything nerfed to suit me so that only my kind of strategy works. This would make things so much easier for me. Thankyou so much for wasting 1 minute of your life reading this. kthxbyeculater

This would definetely explain why he is so adverse to any positive discussion and suggestions to the skill NR, because it is the only thing he is capable of doing.

Dan Mega · Aug 04, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Yep, I guess the Moderators are very biased. I've come to expect that from guildwarsguru.com.

Principa threatened to close a thread similiar to this when a guy couldn't find a way to counter casters, claiming that he was crying about getting "owned"....

Yet the mods agree with this and close an anti-ranger-nerf thread.